Blog - Creating a path

Learning to Write - Have our Thoughts Changed?

2/21/2018

We had a wonderful discussion last year about what's important for students in learning to write and writing to learn. Fifteen months later what have we learnt about teaching writing?

Read through this great discussion and add your new ideas:

From Louise, Granville East PS
Our Term 4 Rounds at Granville East is based on students' skills in writing. We are grappling with both the technical skills of composing texts as well as the expressive, reflective and generative thinking developed in writing for genuine purposes. Our teachers have spent quite some time looking at the benefits of targeted and explicit modelling to students, so that learning is not left to chance or based on individual motivations. But - does this modelling go far enough? What are the opportunities provided for students to construct, choose, consider, reflect and monitor and write and write and write?

I am keen to hear others' thoughts on the notion of Learning to Write and Writing to Learn. What should we be aware of (and conscious of when designing experiences) regarding the skills, dispositions and capabilities that authors nee when composing in different disciplines and for difference purposes?

Is writing more complex than putting pen to paper?

From Barbara, Critical Friend
Thanks Louise. I agree that if our students are going to become proficient they need opportunities to write and write and write. So are teachers making those opportunities and also using the process of writing to develop thinking and understanding across the curriculum?

Yes, we need modelling and quality texts for students to learn from, and the teacher needs to be explicit. But are our teachers too narrow in this explicit teaching? Are our expectations for students generally too low (and I'm asking this question across schools of all ses levels)? Is our feedback and assessment too often focused on surface features (that a good word processing program will correct anyway)?

I love the sample lessons in the Rothbridge book that demonstrate the importance of quality & carefully selected texts, and how explicit teaching can be used to generate a deep understanding of the techniques that real writers use. Do our teachers have sufficient understanding of the writers' craft to enable them to develop such lessons independently? My big question is, “How do we get our students to think like a real writer?”

From Nicole, Granville East PS
Thanks Louise and Barbara. I agree with your thoughts...to me writing is definitely much more complex than putting pen to paper. The act of taking an abstract thought and translating it into a meaningful written text is an amazing human act, but one that needs to be consciously learnt. In order to think like a writer, children first need to recognise themselves as writers...not just kids who come to school to 'do writing'.

In researching this problem of practice, I am also wondering how effectively we are using writing to help children develop understanding across the curriculum. Freebody's idea of talking about 'literacies' rather than the often ambiguous and misunderstood 'literacy' resonates with me, as the language better reflects the concept that writing (both learning to write and writing to learn) is intertwined with context, field, audience and purpose. How well are we designing these broader, cross-curriculum writing experiences for students? Are they mostly incidental? How can we make them richer?

I am also wondering about the texts chosen for modelling...and the 'hidden agenda' that may be at play here. Do we value some texts over others? Which ones and why? What impact does this have?

From Sharna, Sefton Infants
All of your points are very valid and highlight the complexities of the teaching and learning of writing. I fear that the teaching of writing has become quite formulaic and treated at just a surface level as well. I believe the explicit introduction of genres/text types, as well as functional grammar certainly helped us as teachers to provide more structure for the teaching of writing but often I think we get stuck there at that level and don't develop our students as expressive writers. I think the rubric type assessment and scoring of writing as per NAPLAN has also influenced us somewhat to teach writing in a constrained and formulaic manner. ( I hope learning intentions and success criteria don't do the same!)

For those of us who have been teaching for a while - Do you remember 'Process Writing'? Our focus then was getting children to write, write and write supported by individual conferences with the teacher/peer to provide feedback and build the writer's skills as expressive communicators. I think we are now missing or shortcutting on the writing development that comes through drafting, redrafting (and redrafting) and publishing. How can we balance the best of the explicit teaching of writing with the best of process writing for children learning to express themselves as individuals through writing for a purpose? Writing exercises versus writing as an expression of thinking. And another challenge ... how do we do all of this in our technological age as our written communication is constantly evolving with digital modes of expression?

From Sharen, Old Guildford PS
Completely agree Sharna! Process writing certainly got children writing, thinking about writing & then more writing. Less emphasis around structure; students developed knowledge of this through looking at the effectiveness of their writing in meeting intended purpose and audience.

From Kay and Sharen, Old Guildford PS
Hi everyone,
We've put some of our ideas from the readings into a comic strip for your enjoyment. Teaching writing is not easy, and the readings certainly gave us some food for thought. We really liked the idea of focusing on writing as a tool for thinking and moving away from a formulaic approach to teaching to write.
Trying some of the ideas, we realised that our students would need plenty of scaffolding to develop the tools for deep thinking. Our students are lacking in background knowledge and experience that facilitate deeper reflections. For this reason, more time would have to dedicated to bridging this gap.
We created a cartoon with Charlie Brown and Lucy Van Pelt discuss some of the key ideas that got us thinking.....

11 Comments

Louise

3/17/2018 03:29:00 pm

After reading the March 2018 Pre-Round readings and then going to this blog and reading our comments and research stimulus from Nov 2016, I recognise that my thinking has changed.

I used to think that providing opportunities for students to write (write lots, and for a range of purposes and with good teacher modelling of skills and processes) that student writing would improve. Now the Graham and Harris paper does talk to the notion of increasing the time available for students to write each week – but it is more than that! I now think that focusing on the types of thinking required to deeply understand something is at the core of the writing craft.

I was struck by the 3 Questions we wrote back in 2016 (what types of thinking are more authentic to the discipline of writing? What actions or types of thinking have you done when engaged in a new understanding? And What actions or types of thinking do your students spend most time doing in writing?) These questions make me wonder about the extent to which we design opportunities for students to deeply engage in a topic or concept that is meaningful to them or has a real-world implication. I wonder if our expectations for students are too low (celebrating putting pen to paper at times, rather than expecting them to grapple with high-demand writing tasks.

And – I can’t help thinking more and more about technology! Not just as a revising tool, but as a medium to compose (work documents, through to movies, through to the range of apps available). I mean, to write this blog I have research papers which I have scrawled key points over; I have a Creative Questions Routine proforma which is covered with notes; and I have a jotting page of scribble based on my readings on the website! And yet – having to do some old-fashioned typing has taken ages!!! Cause it’s HARD to put your thoughts together! AND – it’s going out to an audience where I don’t want to look silly, so I’ve got to think really hard about what I think, what’s changed and what I feel is important. How often do we expect students to think like this???

Nicole

3/17/2018 10:40:48 pm

Julia (my daughter) has been writing a story this evening and grappling with how to end it. We were talking about this and she asked: 'But what makes an ending satisfying?' Of course, she can really answer this question for herself, as she is a reader too and has read countless endings of many texts...judging for herself if they are satisfying to her and why or why not. Yet it is a question that lies at the heart of writing: what makes our writing meaningful, purposeful and worthwhile is often (mostly?) how it is received by the reader. To be an effective writer, we need to position ourselves as both author and audience of text. As such, to be able to effectively write a range of texts across curriculum areas, students also need to be critical readers of different texts and across fields of learning. Teachers also need to make these links explicit to students both through and beyond explicit modelling of reading and writing.

Looking back at my original comment, I still think children need to recognise themselves as writers, but on its own this is not enough.* They also need to know that writing shifts and changes according to context, requires varying degrees of deep thinking (depending on purpose), and is much more complex than ‘putting pen to paper’. They should know that writing has a permanence that oral language often doesn’t…and when it is effective, an accompanying power as well.

Just to add some further food for thought, here as two quotes by well known writers. The first I chose to illustrate the importance of reading as a writer, and I appreciated the reference to writing as a craft (like carpentry). The second highlights the challenge of teaching writing, because the best writing is not a formula but a form of individual expression.

“Read, read, read. Read everything – trash, classics, good and bad, and see how they do it. Just like a carpenter who works as an apprentice and studies the master. Read! You'll absorb it. Then write. If it's good, you'll find out. If it's not, throw it out of the window.” (William Faulkner)

“Writing has laws of perspective, of light and shade just as painting does, or music. If you are born knowing them, fine. If not, learn them. Then rearrange the rules to suit yourself." (Truman Capote)

* As a side-note here – we recently asked teachers to identify when they are writers. I think it would be timely to do this activity again with children at our school!!

Amanda

3/26/2018 09:36:16 am

Nicki, your comment " Writing has a permanence that oral language often doesn’t…and when it is effective, an accompanying power as well." really stuck with me.

It made me think about Rushton Hurley's quote " If students think they are sharing their work with the world, they want it to be good. If they are just sharing it with you, they want it to be good enough"

I often wonder about this quote in relation to social media, peers, friendships and bullying.

After all, in a world of social media where text message, face book posts and twitter are all forms of communication with "permanence" I wonder why they are rarely composed with thought, re-read, edited or reviewed before sending them out to a very wide audience!

I wonder if adults as well as children consider this to be a form of true writing despite the changing context?

I would really like to create a task where students write texts, facebook message, email etc but then teach them about varying context and purpose as well as respect for your audience. Meaning, to compose with thought and care, largely due to the permanence of the written word and the impact it can have on a reader.

I think it could be really authentic to their learning, not necessarily because we are doing it at school but because its authentic to everything they do outside of school !

Poppy (and the Geoges Hall team)

3/22/2018 01:55:52 pm

Reading the articles was extremely powerful and thought provoking and demonstrated that there were many types of thinking. It was interesting to discover which ones were of value depends on the learning context. In order for us to understand what our students are thinking we need to support students in the process of building on their understanding of things to be visible thinkers. Are students explaining things to one another? Are students offering creative ideas, Are they , and we as teachers, using the language of thinking? Is there a brainstorm of alternative interpretations on the wall? Are students debating a plan? Do we use rich texts to carefully analyse and dissect the writing in an active learning environment? Are we providing a rich text environment? Do our students feel safe to take risks in their writing? These are just some of the questions we need to be asking ourselves to promote deeper understanding of the learning content.

Burwood Public

3/23/2018 12:42:49 pm

At Burwood Public School we approach the teaching of writing through the lense of the EALD learner. Ensuring the talk is in place and opportunities for the development of vocabulary will always be at the fore front of our pedagogy.
Through the work we have done on Intellectual Rigour we are grappling with how we engage all learners fairly in challenging tasks.
In relation to the reading and the debate on deep vs surface learning we are conscious on the need to shift our focus from the product to the process of writing.

Nasim

3/25/2018 12:27:00 pm

First of all , I would like to express that my favourite part of the article “ A path To better writing “ was the section about “ Create a Pleasant And Motivating Writing Environment”. In my role as an Arabic and cultural studies teacher I find my self in two seperate envionrment . In Arabic , I work closely with students and encourage them to challenge them selves to write in basic Arabic forms which many might not be family with or good at but I saw with motivating and encouraging the students many preserved snd began to write by following simple Arabic rules .
In JELO, I encourage students to research , read , understand and choose interesting facts they wish to share about the country we are learning about . As 21st century learners , students have a choice to either digital devices to type and present or create posters and booklets in written forms .
As an adult , I usually find the beginning or introduction to my piece of writing the hardest , as I was made to believe that through the introduction you either capture or loose the reader . I find when my ideas or thoughts are in my head they are mixed up and all over the place , once I start putting them down on paper or typing them down. It is then that I get a better understanding of where I wish to go next in my writing .

Zeinab

3/25/2018 06:55:25 pm

When I first read this article, the question ‘How can I (as a teacher), help my students begin and successfully navigate the path to greater writing competence?’ came to mind. As the article states, the answer is “devoting time to the teaching of writing and use the time wisely”.
Well, I have witnessed the powerful entity of writing through my 12 year old niece, who has recently finished primary school and embarked on her high school journey. Below is a poem she had written in her leisure time:

As clear as night
As dead as stone
My talents which I shall hone
Not a moment that I won’t fight,
As long as my wings are in flight

Stuck in a cobweb of lies
Broken are all the ties
Of some our best allies
What to do when already you’re far,
Reach out and ask the wise star
Anger and selfishness go hand in hand,
Creating a very fragile band
That will only take so much,
Until it breaks under my touch.

Written by my 12 year old niece “Lara”

“Writing is like art” she says. She told me that her use of different colours and shades when painting in art class is symbolic to different tones, similarly, in writing, you have a voice, when you write you’re suddenly heard and for her it became an outlet.
She started writing simple stories and narratives, but what astounded me was her drive and passion to write and her small note book that always accompanied her. I found from her and our experience as primary school teachers, that students need to learn how to write. However, if they have an intrinsic love to be heard, which most students do, they will learn to find their voice. Writing becomes a skill that is invaluable. It is an adaptable skill that shall be mastered and taught, maybe as simple as writing in the students’ diary. I find it valuable to get students to write and I encourage diaries as birthday gifts, in order to inspire students to write more about everyday situations. Students would then not only learn how to master the writing skill, but also learn the value about real life writing. To give that encouraging space for them to initially instigate a passion for writing, the students find confidence to deviate into imagery, poetry and so forth. I believe it is of paramount importance that we teach our students writing strategies such as planning, drafting, revising, editing and proof-reading as it increases the quality of their writing (Graham & Harris 2016).
Kids are full of life, imagination and motivation and as a teacher, I strongly encourage others to motivate them to note their thoughts down as a start to this creative process and for us to fully engage them in writing and reading tasks, so they can harness that skill with high self-efficacy.

3/26/2018 02:52:06 am

For the past year we have been working with several tools and ideas that are deep-seated in proven evidence based practices. As the article states, it is advantageous to teach some recognised processes and skills to support quality and improvement in student writing. Overall, I have seen a change in student understandings about writing, in particular the way they think about the links between being a reader and being a writer. This has led to an ongoing conversation in classrooms about being a message giver (as the writer) and a message receiver (as the reader) and why you need to have clarity in both audience and purpose before you begin to plan your writing.

After re-reading my previous blog post, I still believe that writing process is important. However, I am now thinking more about the teacher using their own knowledge and understanding of their students to tailor teaching and learning to their children, while still using some proven practices. Graham & Harris said “The idea is that you contextualise knowledge gained from writing research, integrate it with your own knowledge about your students” Pp 364 The reason I am thinking this is because I feel like the article was trying to point out the necessity of balance within teaching and that no one formulaic way will solve all problems in writing.

I am wondering how we take this next step in teaching and learning and if it is strongly linked to varying opportunities to write including across KLA’s as well as supporting students to develop their own individual writer’s voice.

Barbara

3/27/2018 01:13:31 pm

What a fabulous discussion! So much deep thinking to get our round started.

So where to start my comment? I love the poem written by Zainab's niece - what an accomplished writer she is. And I love her analogy that "writing a poem is like using different colours and shades when painting". I read a comment recently that said if you want children to write well, let them study poetry. How often do we do that?

I wonder about the importance of time and flexibility of environment in ensuring that our students think deeply as they write. I started my thinking about this post then went to the bedroom and sorted some clothes (thinking all the time), when I came back I was ready to write. How often do we acknowledge that time is needed just to think, and that you don't need to sit in one place to do that thinking.

Zainab's niece obviously loves writing. Nasim also talks about the importance of motivation and encouragement. A slide I saw yesterday on Twitter was from Helen Timperley restating the essential factors for learning, a key one being "motivation and emotion are the gatekeepers of learning". Our students won't learn if their emotions about writing are negative.

Zainab's niece writes marvellous poetry. I wonder whether her writing about science or history is as accomplished. The Georges Hall team point out that different contexts and different disciplines require different
types of thinking. Nicki says "to be able to write effectively across the disciplines, students need to be critical readers of different texts across curriculum areas". How well do our teachers understand the different types of thinking that are typical to each disciple? Is this a barrier to our students writing effectively?

Finally, our problem of practice asks, "Are students thinking deeply about the texts they are are creating?" Louise thinks that we need to focus more on the types of thinking needed to deeply understand something. Our reading explained the difference between learning that focuses on knowledge versus understanding; and teaching that is at the surface level versus a deep level. Can we come to a common understanding of these concepts, and will we be able to discern the difference in our classroom observations?

Let the rounds begin!

OGPS

3/27/2018 02:19:41 pm

It was interesting that handwriting and spelling can lead to a 21 percentile point jump in writing fluency K-3. The concept that knowledge is something that you have vs understanding which is something that you do. Lack of understanding is a short coming of the teaching practice not the student. Goals of learning and understanding should be separated. Opportunity for students to write everyday leads to a 12 percentile point improvement in writing quality and even more interestingly it leads to a 14 percentile point increase in reading comprehension.....so it makes sense to provide students with increased opportunity to write about their reading to deepen their understanding of the text.

Sharen

3/27/2018 10:46:54 pm

Writing is a form of art; personal but for an audience, individual but must follow conventions, stimulating but challenging to hone skills. The task set before teachers of writing is, "How do we facilitate student learning in writing so they see themselves as writers, ie real writers writing real messages for real audiences?". Some thoughts about how we can grapple with this task, formulated following some of the ideas garnered from the readings provided here & from other research & ponderings::
Talk,talk,talk.....to clarify thoughts & ideas,
use the power of oral storytelling,
time to plan & think, pause & ponder,
reflect on ideas - experiment, take risks, trial & error,
Review, revise, revisit to improve,
teacher modelling, guided instruction, small group, individual,
Collaboration - the power of working together,
low stakes writing - take the pressure off,
writing stamina - write & write & write - every day in every way,
writing "tool kit" to make it easy - explicit instruction in the mechanics so the creative can flow - sentence construction, punctuation, grammar, language forms & features, spelling, handwriting/word processing,
Read, read, read - exposure to high quality texts - extended read to self time, teacher read-alouds,
Build vocabulary,
Write about reading,
build a writing community,
the power of feedback & constructive critique.
........the challenge is real......are we up to it?

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Learning to Write - Have our Thoughts Changed?

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